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Akeeba Backup for Joomla!

#9086 secure site without index.html

Posted in ‘Akeeba Backup for Joomla! 4 & 5’
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Latest post by earthrat on Monday, 03 October 2011 09:16 CDT

earthrat
There has been some talk about how dumb it is to think that adding a blank index.html to every directory is somehow going to secure a Joomla website. I found a way to turn off indexes in the apache configuration file and I am wondering if anyone knows if this is a viable solution and what side effects it may cause?

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Thank you! I've been saying that forever and even wrote a lengthy blog post about it which I see you've read and commented on :) Everything you said is perfectly correct. If you just turn off directory indexes you are doing the same thing as index.html files, only much better. If you're using my master .htaccess or Admin Tools Professional's .htaccess Maker you actually completely block the access to the sensitive directories, so the existence of index.html files or having directory indexes turned off is completely inconsequential. Even if a PHP file is vulnerable, it will be inaccessible from the web, therefore not an attack vector any more.

Yet, JED is adamant in abiding by this stupid, outdated rule which serves no security purpose. Adding insult to injury, they still consider it a "security feature" and will reject extensions violating that rule as "insecure". Insecure my... well, you get it :)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

earthrat
It was your blog post that got me thinking about this and I finally made time to investigate it more and make this change. I mean it really is a no brainer but I can see there are so many hosting companies that do not have this implimented and for those that dont use the htaccess file like you offer them. Then I can see the point of having the index.html file. However if the Joomla team was really that concerned with security they would follow your example and add (or at least offer) this as part of the core install.

What would be great is if you could offer a way for those of us who agree with you and want to get rid of this ignorance (security-through-obscurity rule). Would be to have a way that we could strip out all the index.html files, save space on our accounts and streamline the site, Is is this possible?

I have been kicking around the idea to take my local copy of a site and performing a search for these offending files and removing them before I package it up and upload it to the online account. Is that something to try or is that just a waste of time? I know that with any Joomla/extension update or install will of course add new index files but I would like to see some movement in the right direction and I would support any suggestions you might have on this?

I think that those developers that see this in the light that we do should offer an alternate download of their extensions with these offending files removed to start with. This sounds like a movement that could gain traction and force JED to take a more proactive approach to this ridiculous rule and get rid of it all together!

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
It's hardly a no-brainer if you are a commercial host. Some of your clients may want this behavior to host a download area. But I agree that if you have a site based on any CMS (even a home brew one) directory indices should be turned off.

Well, the Joomla! team is a very loose term :) I have provided bug fix and feature patches to Joomla!, so that makes me part of the team, I guess (my name is in the JoomlaCode.org project listing of the Joomla! CMS anyways). What needs be done here is a decision among the people with commit access regarding what purpose the .htaccess should serve. Is it there for SEF only or does it serve a higher security purpose? In the latter case, most of my Master .htaccess should be included in it.

But this poses another issue. For years, there has been no "best practices" official document. Developers don't realise that media files which must be used by both the front and the back-end belong to the /media folder, NOT the administrator folder. They don't realise that everything MUST pass though Joomla!'s index.php files unless you're modifying the core Joomla! database or core Joomla! files (and there's only a handful of software which is supposed to do that). Nobody understands that the contents of the cache directory MUST NOT be accessed over the web. Several misconceptions which are in widespread use today and diminish our sites' security happened because nobody cared explaining Joomla! 1.5's directory structure to developers. Unfortunately, this means that if something close to my Master .htaccess was included in the core, a big portion of the JED-listed extensions would not work any more. Yup, it's Catch-22.

Regarding the "security through obscurity", I'm not entirely opposed to it. Sometimes it serves a good purpose. It's another thing, however, to insist that it is the ONLY security rule you should follow. I mean, JED gives a false sense of security to its users. Just because some software is JED-listed it doesn't mean it's secure. What if the developer did include index.html files but has a ton of potential SQLi and XSS vulnerabilities all over his gosh darn code? I've seen quite a few such extensions, but I can't report them. I have to create an exploit, notify the developer, wait for 15 days to see if he releases a fix, if he doesn't I have to publish the exploit and notify VEL which will notify JED which will delist the extension and notify the developer. And, yet, JED users believe that if an extensions is listed in JED it's secure. Big pile of cow droppings...

In any way, you can safely remove all index.html files. If you have SSH access you can go to your site's root and do something like:
find . -type f -name index.html -delete
You'll see a few hundreds to a few thousands of files being removed - and a backup which is 15% smaller. Woot! :)

As for developers, I'd first like 'em to think about basic security stuff when they're coding their extensions and then talk about index.html files. And some of 'em should really open up their bloody ears and listen. A particular developer of a popular extension has been contacted by at least a dozen of my users and notified that he's accessing files in the administrator directory from the front-end. He replied once and he simply said "that's how we did it, take it or leave it". Can you believe that? The guy is mixing up the contents of the two separate Joomla! applications (front- and back-end) and he feels very proud that he does that. Huh! So, no, I don't think that a rebellion against the JED rule is what we need. What we need is a rebellion against developers who refuse to fix security-related issues in their software.

OK, my rant is over :)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

earthrat
Thanks Nic, you cleared up a great deal here for me and I do understand some of how the developer community works. After reading this I am on board 100% with the fact that developers need to be educated. I use to think like the masses that if it was on the JED it could be trusted. It was not until a site got hacked that I came to realize this is not true, working with half-baked extensions. Over the years I have become smarter with the choices I make but it is still difficult since I am a young ling when it comes to understanding PHP and defiantly with secure code, how it works and how best to configure it.

Hopefully with the new structure that is being discussed more will be implemented with respect to security. Rules need to be put on the front burner as far as the speed at which an offending extension is dealt with. As far as I am concerned there should be no warning and an unsecure extension should immediately be placed on the VEL list. 15 days without reply to a vulnerability gives hackers plenty of time to damage an unsuspecting site. The only thing I can see that would change that for me would be knowing the developer was working on a fix for this. I have liked to see an extension that could sniff out these offending extensions listed on the VEL and flag the admin that they have a problem for 1.5. I see one now for 1.7 but this should have been a long time ago! In fact I just ran this on my site and it reported Akeeba Backup as out of date from my version 3.3.4 and the latest version is 3.2.7. So who is responsible for keeping the VEL updated because that is an obvious downgrade from what I can see...;)

I am going to play around with this index.html removal and see what I gain from it. Would it be fair to say that other than decreasing the sites overall size it would also speed up access times since the server does look for this file, if it is not there then it won't spend time looking at it?

I would also be a subscriber to any list that would bring these developers to bear. I found the reply from the developer you described in your last paragraph disturbing and would be very interested to know what extension this is in case I am using it. Securing a site is hard enough without running extensions that are assisting the hackers...;)

BTW: I totally enjoy your rants and find your opinion refreshing and very valuable...;)

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Just a clarification: the 15 days waiting period is not imposed by JED, it's a self-imposed rule by responsible security consultants. When you discover an unpublished vulnerability, you have to let the developer fix it. If there is a published vulnerability reported to VEL, the developer is notified immediately and the JED listing is taken down within a few hours, which is pretty cool. My point is not that JED reacts slowly to security issues, but that it doesn't and can't guarantee the security of extensions published in it. It's not JED's job to be a code auditor and users should not assume that. It's a directory. As such, it should only concern itself with the following: a. does an extension install? b. is it compatible with Joomla!'s own license c. is it really compatible with the exact Joomla! versions it says it is? And that's about it.

Regarding 1.7's updater, it's a little rough on the edges still, but slowly getting "there". Give it some time. It took me 6 months to get my own updater run smooth as silk - and I released an update every month to get there! Updaters are tricky and J!'s updater is still very young.

Regarding the removal of index.html files, there's no speed penalty if they exist. They are not used. The problem is when you're installing an extension and one fifth of the files installed could be skipped. This could make the difference between an extension which installs on a slow shared host using the FTP layer and one which doesn't. The extension discovery in J! 1.6/1.7 was made to work around that, but for the majority of cases it just sounds to me like shooting mosquitos with a canon - it's an overkill. Let alone the fact that Joe Average doesn't understand how to manually unpack an extension before getting to a point he can run the extension discovery feature.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

earthrat
Thanks for the feedback on this Nic, I have taken enough of your time on this but glad I understand it better than I did and it is good to know that they are doing a good job on the VEL.

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