Support

Akeeba Backup for Joomla!

#26421 Uninstallation and refund

Posted in ‘Akeeba Backup for Joomla! 4 & 5’
This is a public ticket

Everybody will be able to see its contents. Do not include usernames, passwords or any other sensitive information.

Environment Information

Joomla! version
n/a
PHP version
n/a
Akeeba Backup version
n/a

Latest post by nicholas on Monday, 31 October 2016 11:03 CDT

user89011
Description of my issue:

I am not able to install Akeeba using FTP, because my rackspace server only allows SFTP.

therefore, i have followed your instructions for manual installation of Akeeba Backup. I have extracted the Akeepba pro zip file to a folder named Akeeba and saved this to the site's temporary folder.

However when I try to intsall from director, I receive the following message:
"JFolder::create: Could not create folder.Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/tmp/akeeba/install_5815bf76ab289
Install path does not exist.
JFolder::create: Could not create folder.Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/tmp/akeeba/install_5815bf76bb11f
Update path does not exist.
Package Update: There was an error installing an extension: com_akeeba-pro.zip
Error
Unable to create destination
Error installing package"

As a separate issue, since installing an update to Akeeba, i am not able to login to my back end, I get redirected to my website's homepage

I have therefore renamed /home/comanandco/public_html/plugins/system/admintools/admintools/main.php to main-disable.php.

However, I recognise that this is not satisfactory.

At this stage, I would like a full refund for my Akkeba backup and to safely uninstall the Akeeba Backup and all related files.

I have checked with my server and my site is being fully backed up each day. Therefore, I do not need a Joomla to duplicate this work.

Thank you.

Please let me know how I can uninstall your program and obtain a refund for my purchase yesterday of the extension that i am unable to install.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I am not able to install Akeeba using FTP, because my rackspace server only allows SFTP.


Um, I find this claim very puzzling.

You do not need to use FTP or SFTP to install Akeeba Backup! It is installed through the Joomla extensions installer.

Furthermore, explicitly FTP access (instead of SFTP) is only required on broken hosts which run the web server under a different user than the one owning the hosting account. That's something you need to enable in Joomla's Global Configuration prior to installing any extension on such a server. However, when you have SFTP available this is typically not the case, meaning that you most likely have the same user owning both the web server process and your files.

On top of that we do recommend using SFTP for file transfers in general. If you've ever watched my security presentation e.g. from Joomla Day UK 2016 you'll remember the slide where I explicitly say use SFTP, never plain old FTP.

In any case, FTP or SFTP is just not necessary for installing Akeeba Backup.

However when I try to intsall from director, I receive the following message:

"JFolder::create: Could not create folder.Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/tmp/akeeba/install_5815bf76ab289

Install path does not exist.


This issue is unrelated to our software and has everything to do with Joomla and the permissions of your tmp directory. Please consult the installation troubleshooting page for more information. I believe that if you go to Extensions, Manage, Warnings you have a list of things you need to fix on your server setup. That list is produced by Joomla itself.

OK. Here's what. I actually do want to take a look at that server because there's something inconsistent in your message. On one hand you have this error message which tells me no extensions can be installed on this serer, on the other hand you said you have installed an update (obviously to Admin Tools, not Akeeba Backup as you claimed). I believe I am looking at a message out of context and the problem is elsewhere. I will know for sure if I can actually run the installation on that particular server. In case you're wondering, yes, Joomla's error messages for installation failures range between useless and asinine. I understand and share your confusion and frustration. Believe me, I have tried many times to get Joomla to improve that darned installer to no avail.

As a separate issue, since installing an update to Akeeba, i am not able to login to my back end, I get redirected to my website's homepage


I'm confused. You literally just said that you could NOT install Akeeba Backup. How did you install an update...? I suppose you mean Admin Tools instead? I will proceed assuming you mean Admin Tools, mainly because of the rest of your message pointing towards that direction.

This would happen because you told it to do that, actually. You've set up a secret URL parameter OR enabled administrator IP whitelisting. There are troubleshooting instructions you can follow to fix that.

Please note that none of that happens spontaneously "after installing an update" for the simple reason that the update does NOT change your configuration. It would be completely counter-productive to make arbitrary configuration changes which lock everybody out of their sites, ourselves included, on every minor software update :) It's perfectly understandable that you did something you don't remember and got locked out. No problem, crap happens, we're here to help.

Again, please do provide me super user and SFTP login information to your site and I'll tell you exactly what's going on.

At this stage, I would like a full refund for my Akkeba backup and to safely uninstall the Akeeba Backup and all related files.


I would like to kindly remind you that when you subscribed you have explicitly agreed to our Terms of Service. Per the agreed upon Terms of Service there is no possibility of a refund at this stage. We'd need to confirm that the issue is a result of our software and impossible to fix before authorizing a refund. At the very least you need to provide me with the URL to your site, Super User login information and FTP or SFTP connection information so I can connect to your site and fix both issues.

Let me be honest. Your issues being quite clearly a Joomla issue (extension installation is performed by Joomla, not Akeeba Backup, otherwise we couldn't list it on the Joomla! Extensions Directory at all) and a user error (exactly what I can tell after taking a look at your site) you can safely assume that you are ineligible for a refund. So please do let me help you fix your issues. I've made the ticket private so any information posted here will be seen only by you and me.

Thank you in advance for helping me help you.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

user89011
Sirs,

i have changed permission in the directory /home/comanandco/public_html/tmp/akeeba to 7777. however when I try to instal from directory I recieve the error messageL:

"Warning
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/components/com_akeeba/controllers
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/components/com_akeeba/models
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/assets
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/controllers
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/engine
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/helpers
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/models
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/platform
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/tables
JFolder: :delete: Path is not a folder. Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/administrator/components/com_akeeba/views
JFolder::create: Could not create folder.Path: /home/comanandco/public_html/media/com_akeeba/css
Cannot create destination folder
Error
Error installing library"

I find your language offensive "No problem, crap happens, we're here to help." And, at this stage, i am inclined to report your message. Your refund policy is in violation of
The UK's Consumer Protection Act 1999. Please review the UK government's guidance for Online sellers on this issue.
https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

I am reporting the following an update to Akeeba, I am not able to login to my website without making the alteration to the main.php fie which is located here: /home/comanandco/public_html/plugins/system/admintools/admintools#

I am not able to install Akeeba, following your instructions, and TO THIS EXTENT YOUR GOODS ARE AT FAULT. I expect an immediate refund, and will take further appropriate action if this is not forthcoming

user89011
I do not wish to make public the language used as part of your after sales service. however I will publish this if appropriate remedial action is not taken.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Mr. Coman,

I am deeply sorry that you are being so unreasonable and uncooperative despite my sincere attempt to help you. I am quite shocked by your baseless accusations and empty threats. I am, in fact, switching this ticket back to public so that anyone can see it. Feel free to link to the URL of this ticket. Neither me nor our company has anything to hide.

The error messages you are receiving make it very clear that the problem lies with Joomla itself. As I have already explained to you, the installation of extensions - including Akeeba Backup - is performed by Joomla. Feel free to corroborate this with independent Joomla! extension developer, the Joomla! Extensions Directory staff (which forbid us from using our own installer on penalty of being banned from the directory) and the Joomla developers.

Let me express in no uncertain terms that as you have stated repeatedly you have a problem installing Akeeba Backup, i.e. with Joomla itself trying to install our software. The messages you posted also tell you that the problem is with the permissions of the core Joomla directories (components, administrator/components, plugins). These are the directories which be given a different ownership or -as a last resort, but not permanently because of security concerns- 0777 permissions. Also note that 7777 permissions are something completely different (it's decimal instead of octal) and will not work. Therefore by your own account you have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the problem lies with Joomla itself, not Akeeba Backup.

Further to that, our business is NOT governed by the laws of the United Kingdom. Akeeba Ltd is a company registered in the Republic of Cyprus and governed by its laws. The Republic of Cyprus is part of the European Union and has signed all EU directives under national law. As explicitly stated in our Terms of Service the European Union Directive 2011/83/EU states that as soon as you start the download of a software product not delivered in a tangible medium you automatically waive your right to withdrawal, therefore you are not eligible for a refund. You explicitly indicated you understand that when subscribing.

Moreover, when you signed up you explicitly stated that you unreservedly agree with the Terms of Service, you accept the refund policy and you are fully informed about the product. By insisting that the ToS and the refund policy do not apply to you I have to regrettably inform you that you are in breach of contract. I will assume that this was a bad wording on your part because if you really meant what you said I would be legally required to terminate your account without a refund.

I am still willing to help you with the two problems you are facing, despite your so far hostile interaction with us and the fact that one is completely outside the scope of our support:

1. A problem UNRELATED to our software, i.e. a bad server configuration which prevents Joomla from installing extensions; and
2. A user error where your misconfiguring our software results in its intended behavior which is not what you want to apply.

This is my last offer to help. Please send me an email with the login credentials (since this ticket is now public) and I will of course help you solve both issues as I have already promised. As I told you I do understand that crap happens, i.e. there are issues outside our software which may be frustrating to clients to the point they mistakenly believe it's our fault. That's human. We ARE here to help, even when we are wrongly accused. Please do let me help you.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

user89011

There is no need for me to take the matter further.

By making ticket public you have done this for me.

Any user will now be able to see the sort of after sales communications that they can expect.


Cyprus is a member state of the European Union are therefore
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
"If you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, [b]for any reason and with no justification[b]."

Akeeba is in breach of the applicable Consumer law.

I have never learned of anything so rude and inappropriate as accusing a customer of being in breach of contract, when the customer has paid the stated price for your product.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Wow. I have legitimately tried to help you with your self-inflicted issue. In return I get is borderline libel and threats.

Very well, let's stick to what the law says and only do exactly what the law says. As a result I rescind my offer to help you and will only provide support as stipulated by the Support Policy which is part of the legally binding Terms of Service.

I have already provided the applicable consumer protection law with links (not to mention the links are in our Terms of Service which you have UNRESERVEDLY agreed to in a legally binding manner). You are misleadingly only pasting very specific excerpts regarding the general right to withdrawal. Per the Terms of Service, we actually DO offer that right to our clients per the EU consumer protection laws and we, in fact, elected to extend it to 30 days instead of the legally required 14 days.

However, the law also has explicit exceptions which you chose not to paste in your reply. These exceptions do apply to you and they say that you are not eligible for a refund as you've lost your right to withdrawal. Stating that we are in breach of the applicable "consumer law" is a false statement. If repeated outside this ticket system it is a civil wrong per the applicable common law.

As I have already told you twice above, our refund policy is compliant to the letter of the European Union Directive 2011/83/EU. Let's read Article Article 9 of the directive, paragraph 1 because that's what applies to on-line sales of services and software.

---
1. Save where the exceptions provided for in Article 16

apply
, the consumer shall have a period of 14 days to
withdraw from a distance or off-premises contract, without
giving any reason, and without incurring any costs other than
those provided for in Article 13(2) and Article 14.
---

As you read, the right to withdrawal (refund) is limited by the provisions of Article 16. This article has the title "Exceptions from the right of withdrawal". As we explicitly state in our Terms of Service (for your convenience) paragraph m of Article 16 applies with regards to downloadable software. Let me quote the opening paragraph (unnumbered) and paragraph m of Article 16:

---
Member States shall not provide for the right of withdrawal set
out in Articles 9 to 15 in respect of distance and off-premises
contracts as regards the following:

...

m) the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a

tangible medium if the performance has begun with the

consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment

that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal.

---

So, as long as the performance (download) has begun "with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment" the right to withdrawal (refund) is lost. Before you were allowed to pay you had to EXPLICITLY check three boxes which, under EU legal precedent, have the same place as a signature. Remember that these boxes are never, ever checked unless you explicitly check them. Even if you fill in wrong information in the form and it has to reload the boxes do NOT stay checked because that would be illegal. We actually do pay attention to the EU legislation. We are maintaining our own sales software exactly because all other commercially available solutions were not 100% compliant with the EU consumer law legislation.

The two most important boxes you checked, as I told you above, are:
- You unreservedly agree to the Terms of Service
- You explicitly agree to the Refund Policy which is an integral part of the Terms of Service.
Inside the refund policy you are told in no uncertain terms that initiating the download constitutes express consent. I quote the entire Refund Policy you agreed to (even though I linked to it in my previous reply):

---
"Cool-off" period and refunds policy

In compliance to EU directives, you are entitled to 30 calendar days of "cool-off" period. If within those 30 calendar days you have not used our services (explicitly: you have not downloaded our software and have not requested software support) you are eligible for a full refund of your purchase, no questions asked. This "cool-off" period is provided in accordance to Article 6, §1 of Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the protection of consumers in respect of distance contracts and the Directive 2011/83/EU which replaces it.

However, if you have already downloaded our software and/or already made use of our support services you are not eligible for a refund, even in the first 14 calendar days according to Directive 2011/83/EU, Article 16, §m which states: "the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal."

Explicitly: when you click on a software download link, or use any method provided by your web server / CMS to initiate such a download (including but not limited to installing updates via Live Update and Joomla! extensions update), or request software support from us through our ticket system you are giving us your express and unreserved consent to begin the provisioning of the software download and support service you have purchased from us, waiving your right of withdrawal from the subscription contract, making you ineligible for a refund. For more information you may also want to read: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-450_en.htm?locale=en

Clarification for renewals and their eligibility for a refund: renewals are considered new purchases, not a continuation of your previous subscription. As a result you can get a refund in 14 calendar days before the conclusion of the contract which means:

Any time before the activation of your renewed subscription.
Within 14 days from the activation of your renewed subscription, but only if you have neither downloaded the software nor made a software support request since the exact date & time your renewed subscription was activated.
Clarification for the software download service: Most of our software comes in two editions, a free of charge Core edition and a subscription-based Professional edition. For these software we consider our software download services to have been provisioned only when you download the subscription-based Professional edition. Downloading the free edition of our software or any other item which is made available to the general public without the need for an active subscription (e.g. documentation) does not constitute performance of our download service. In other words, if you download Akeeba Backup Core and its documentation your right to withdraw is not affected.

Clarification for the software support service: Performance of the software support service begins at the exact time you submit a support ticket or a reply to an existing support ticket. Pre-sales requests and communication through e-mail or the Contact Us page does not count towards the performance of the software support service. These are communications provided outside the scope of the software support service.

In any other case, no refunds will be given whatsoever. By using our software download and support services you explicitly declare that you accept our policy of no refunds beyond the provisions of aforementioned European Union Directive and the member state laws which enforce it.

Further clarification: if you bought the wrong subscription or you failed to use a valid coupon code you have in possession please contact us immediately. Even though we cannot issue a refund, we can always convert your subscription to the correct type and / or adjust the duration of your subscription to match what you paid.
---

Therefore, you were fully informed about losing your right to withdrawal as soon as you start downloading anything from our site, you accepted that unreservedly and you downloaded the software anyway. Therefore you have given your explicit consent to lose your right to withdrawal. And so you've lost it. You do not have the right to withdrawal per your downloads of:
Admin Tools 4.0.2 - 2016-10-29 - origin: https://www.akeebabackup.com/my-subscriptions/subscriptions.html - IP 82.69.132.78 - United Kingdom
Akeeba Backup for Joomla! 5.2.4 - 2016-10-30 - origin https://www.akeebabackup.com/download/akeeba-backup/5-2-4.html - IP 82.69.132.78 - United Kingdom
If you debate whether you initiated these downloads I have the full record of your downloads which proves that you're using the same IP address for all your downloads since January 1st, 2016. It is also consistent with the IP you used to purchase a subscription.

Before you attempt yet another switch of strategies let me remind you that the EU itself says that our interpretation of the directive is absolutely correct through MEMO/11/450 of 23 June 2011. This is linked to by the Terms of Service for your convenience. Please read items 1,4 and 9 in that memo. Items 1 and 4 repeat Article 9 of the aforementioned Directive. Item 9 clarifies Article 9 and Article 16 with regards to digital content (downloads) and it reads:

---
9) Better consumer protection in relation to digital products
Information on digital content will also have to be clearer, including about its compatibility with hardware and software and the application of any technical protection measures, for example limiting the right for the consumers to make copies of the content.

Consumers will have a right to withdraw from purchases of digital content, such as music or video downloads, but only up until the moment the actual downloading process begins.
---

The compatibility information for our software is correct. In fact, you do not have a problem with our software being incompatible with your environment. The only problem you have is that Joomla, a third party software, has a compatibility issue with the configuration of your server environment. I told you how to fix it, you ignored me, that's ultimately your choice.

In any case, per the EU directive (the "applicable consumer law" you mentioned) -which is indeed signed into law in the Republic of Cyprus as I explicitly told you myself- you are NOT eligible for a refund because you have lost your right to withdrawal. End of story.

This ticket is closed. Any further contact hereforth regarding this issue will be understood as an explicit and deliberate non-conformance to the legally binding Terms of Service which constitutes breach of contract.

Finally, regarding ticket 26430 where you ask for instructions to uninstall software I have to remind you that AkeebaStrapper has not been part of our published software since May 2016. Moreover, it is not and has never been a protected extension. If it's installed as a protected extension it must have been installed by some other component (it is a common library used by software other than our own). If you want to completely remove it you can simply delete the folder media/akeeba_strapper from your site. Joomla will still have a record of the extension but its files won't exist on your site. That's all the information you need.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Support Information

Working hours: We are open Monday to Friday, 9am to 7pm Cyprus timezone (EET / EEST). Support is provided by the same developers writing the software, all of which live in Europe. You can still file tickets outside of our working hours, but we cannot respond to them until we're back at the office.

Support policy: We would like to kindly inform you that when using our support you have already agreed to the Support Policy which is part of our Terms of Service. Thank you for your understanding and for helping us help you!