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#37720 XML files updatesites not ready for Joomla 4.2 Pre-Update check

Posted in ‘Admin Tools for Joomla! 4 & 5’
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Environment Information

Joomla! version
3.10.11 / 4.2.1
PHP version
7.4.13
Admin Tools version
6.1.7 / 7.1.10

Latest post by RgvS on Friday, 09 September 2022 13:47 CDT

Friday, 09 September 2022 09:36 CDT

RgvS
Hello Akeeba,
 
For the migration from Joomla 3 to Joomla 4 we use the Pre-Update Check.
https://docs.joomla.org/Pre-Update_Check
When we migrate from Joomla 3.10.11 to Joomla 4.1.x all the Akeeba extensions where in the green part "No update Required".
 
Since Joomla 4.2.1 the Akeeba extensions are in the Update Information Unavailable or Update Required.
This is because you updated the target platform for version 7.1.10 but not for version 6.1.7!
So there is no Pre-Update check Information anymore available for version 6.1.7.
(I know you can not use this version for J4, but after migration to J4 you get immediately the update for 7.1.0!)
 
The same problems for the Akeeba FOF, file_fef and file_fof40. The version 4.2 is completely absent, also for the latest version.
Also for the Akeeba Backup the 4.2 is still absent, for 8.1.10.
Or do I have to make a separate ticket for the Akeeba Backup in another Category.
 
We still have to migrate 40 sites from Joomla 3 to Joomla 4, so it would be nice if they are in de green part “No update Required”.
 
Regards,
Richard de Boer / Richard Schlichting

Friday, 09 September 2022 10:06 CDT

nicholas

As I have said before, this is a Joomla problem which can NOT be solved. I had reported all these problems to the pre-update checks four times in the year leading to Joomla 4's release and nobody was listening.

Joomla is stupidly using the update information to determine which versions of a software are compatible with which versions of Joomla.

Our software versions you mentioned (Admin Tools 6, Akeeba Backup 8, FOF 4, FEF 2) are compatible for installation with Joomla 4.0 and compatible merely for the purpose of upgrading your site with Joomla 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 (when it will be released). However, there is no way to convey that.

We do not want to make these older versions of our software installable on Joomla 4.1 and later as we do not support using them on Joomla 4. While they will not break your Joomla 4 site they are non–native and they only run enough to let you upgrade to our Joomla 4 native software (Admin Tools 7, Akeeba Backup 9 etc).

If we lie in our update XML files you will have two problems instead of one:

  • The extension will not be in the green part as there is a newer version compatible with Joomla 4. For example, Admin Tools 6 will be listed as non–compatible because Admin Tools 7 exists, it's a newer version and compatible with Joomla 4. This is the same problem you have.
  • Akeeba Backup 8 users on Joomla 4.1 and later will keep being shown updates to Akeeba Backup 8 which cannot be installed because they are not installable on their site. They will flood us with questions as to why the updates don't work (despite the fact that the failed update prints a message to instead install Akeeba Backup 9).

As a result there is nothing we can realistically do about it. If you start thinking about it, the pre-update check only works for software by developers who are doing it WRONG: only publishing a small update to their Joomla 3 extension which is compatible with both Joomla 3.10 and Joomla 4.x at the same time. Come Joomla 5 they will face the same problem we are facing now. Their software will not work on Joomla 3, 4 and 5; they will have to have a different version for Joomla 3 and a different version for Joomla 4 and 5. Meanwhile our software will be compatible with both Joomla 4 and 5 and we will no longer have this problem.

The correct solution is for Joomla to completely remove the pre-update checks. They are unreliable. Not just for the reason I explained but also because they rely on package information in Joomla's database which does not exist if the user made use of the Discover method to install the sub-extensions of a package. Moreover, they falsely report all system and actionlog plugins as potentially harmful for the upgrade even though we have made sure this is not the case. Finally, the pre-update checks fail on servers with request rate limits, making perfectly compatible extensions appear as “incompatible”, just because Joomla failed to run its own (already problematic) code; I explained, reported and submitted a patch for this issue on January 2nd, 2022 but it's still not applied and as it looks like it will never be applied.

So here is my advice:

DO NOT TRUST THE JOOMLA PRE-UPDATE CHECKS. THEY ARE USELESS AT THE BEST OF TIMES, BLATANT LIES MOST OF THE TIME.

Now you know.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Friday, 09 September 2022 13:47 CDT

RgvS

Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for your long reaction! I’ll understand you are not a great fan for the Pre-Update check.
And yes, you can say it is special to use the update information to determine if an extension is compatible with Joomla versions.

If one extensions version is compatible for both versions for J3 and J4 it can work. And there are still extensions available with only one version. If you chose for different extension versions for J3 an J4 (and I can understand you choose for it) than it is less logical (or stupidly you call it …) to put the J4.x as “targetplatform” for the old J3 extensions only for the Pre-Update checker.

You said Admin Tools 6 is not available for Joomla 4 because Admin Tools 7 exist. But you still mention for 6.1.7 as “targetplatform” 4.0|1 !
So I thought you did this for the Pre-Update check and could add the 4.2. Maybe you should now remove the 4.0|1 ?
And still it worked fine to see the 6.1.7 in te “No update Required” and immediately see an update for Admin Tools 7 when the migration to J4 is complete. But I’ll respect it if you do not want to continue it.

We have to migrate 60 J3 sites to J4 (20 are migrated) with all individual webmasters, witch all choose for different extensions to install. So I think we have to check 50 different extensions. Than the Pre-Update check is a fine first check to see if we can continue an extension in J4. And no, we can not TRUST on it, but yes it will help us, so I don’t think it is completely USELESS !

FOF 4.x 4.1.3
http://cdn.akeeba.com/updates/fof4_file.xml
I think this version is still used in J4.2? But the 4.2 is missing here.

Regards,
Richard de Boer / Richard Schlichting

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