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#10147 Admin Secret URL

Posted in ‘Admin Tools for Joomla! 4 & 5’
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Latest post by arcascomputing on Monday, 12 December 2011 05:55 CST

arcascomputing
Hi Nicholas

Just wondering, with the administrator secret URL parameter, will this protect against the common hacking procedure of trying to call www.mysite.com/administrator to see if it's a Joomla site or not? That is will it return a 404 response or similar or will it still enable them to know that the administrator folder exists (and therefore is likely a Joomla site) but just not be able to login to it?

Simon

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Hi Simon,

No need to wonder when we have thorough documentation. Here's what I'm writing in the docs:

Normally, you can access your site's administrator area using a URL similar to http://www.example.com/administrator. Potential hackers already know that and will try to access your site's administrator area the same way. From that point they can try to brute force their way in (guess your username and password) or simply use the fact that an administrator area exists to deduce that your site is running Joomla! and attack it. By entering a word here, you are required to include it as a URL parameter in order to access your administrator area. For instance, if you enter the word test here you will only be able to access your site's administrator area with a URL similar to http://www.example.com/administrator?test . All other attempts to access the administrator area will be redirected to the site's home page.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
Hi Nicholas

Thanks and I had read through the (rather wonderful) documentation so I understand what the feature does, I just wasn't clear on whether if a hacker attempted to access the /administrator URL they would be denied access but also be given the impression that the /administrator directory didn't even exist?

That is would they attempt to access it and think "oh well, it's not a Joomla site after all" or would they be denied access but still, somehow, get confirmation that the directory exists and therefore the site is running Joomla?

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Well, as the passage I copied reads: All other attempts to access the administrator area will be redirected to the site's home page. This means that if they do not supply a secret word or they supply the wrong secret word they will be redirected to your site's homepage. This doesn't allow them to understand if you have a Joomla! site or not.

I would argue that if someone want to figure out if you're using Joomla! he can do so very easily. For instance, I use K2 and K2 adds its own CSS / Javascript on the page. It's trivial for an attacker to look for K2-enabled sites and figure out that they are using Joomla!. The most important protection offered by the secret word feature is that they can not brute-force your Super Administrator password.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
Duly noted.

It's been an exhausting time for me the last six weeks or so but at least my understanding of website security (and in particular Joomla security) has increased dramatically!

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I know, site security is neither the most fun nor the most easily understandable topic, but it's certainly a very interesting and essential one! Keep on reading and educating yourself :)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
It's probably a little masochistic considering that I'm the one that ends up getting it in the neck from clients and has to clean up the mess but I am finding it all very interesting!

My stress levels have certainly gone up and thanks to the file change feature in JomDefender (perhaps a feature which could be integrated into a future version of AdminTools?) my heart skips a beat each time a new email comes in before I realise it's a false positive report - but I have to admit a certain amount of enjoyment at the detective work involved in checking the logs and seeing what is going on :)

And I certainly will keep reading and educating, thanks a lot to you.

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
There is a reason why I have not implemented such a feature: false positives :D Just the fact that a file changed means nothing, especially if you just upgraded a crapload of extensions. Moreover, false positives work to your disadvantage. You know that a lot of false positives will be thrown after you update a few extensions. What about someone hacking you in the meantime? You never notice. Bummer!

Also, a file change feature means that you are wasting a ton of site resources. There are two ways to check files for modifications: file timestamps and file checksums. The former method is very easy to forge, so you can be hacked without getting a warning. So, you have to rely on checksums. However, calculating checksums requires a lot of resources and db space to store them. It's essentially like taking a backup of your site as far as resource usage is concerned. But if you are to go that route then you'd ideally want the code to produce a diff of the files or, better, try to "figure out" if the difference carries any risk (e.g. base64 encoded variables, use of "suspicious" functions like exec, email and ftp, accessing off-site files like /etc/passwd and so on) and notify you. This is something that I am considering for version 2.2 of Admin Tools, but it will be a HUGE resource drain and will not work for every site.

Instead, I recommend a different approach for now. Take daily backups. Every time you upgrade something, take a new backup before and after the upgrade. Then, compare each backup with its previous backup using Akeeba SiteDiff. If there are added or modified files (but not between pre-update and post-upgrade backups) you need to worry.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
Hmm, okay so it's more of a resources issue.

The sites we've been having trouble with over the last couple of months are all hosted by Rochen through our own 10-site reseller account and also a client's multi-site account and even though I have a file-checking cron job set up on each of them (14 sites in total) so far at least we've not had any resources warnings from them :)

For the most part I'm happier to receive reports with false positives (JD does allow for folder exclusion to cut out things which are legitimately and constantly changing). I do appreciate the method you are suggesting above, it's just that from my point of view to download 14 backups every day (at least) and then run a SiteDiff on them would take up too much of my time.

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I guess you'll just have to wait for the Admin Tools 2.2 then :)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
It would be a beaut if you did have a feature such as that (albeit with an on/off switch for sites which don't have the resources and accompanying resources) as since the hackings have begun your AdminTools component plus the JomDefender ones have been the two which have been the most vital for us so if both main features were covered by the single tool we'd certainly pay more for that.

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Well, that feature is going to be added and you'll be able to run with exactly two different ways: 1. manually, from the back-end; and 2. if you set up a CRON job. So there will be nothing to turn on or off. You can either set up a CRON job or not, we're not going to do that for you anyway :)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

arcascomputing
Then I'll look forward to 2.2's release in due course and in the meantime put up with what is no doubt a far inferior product to what you will provide :)

 web design edinburgh - https://www.arcas.co.uk

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