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#10106 Please a whitelist of users/authors/administrator that work?

Posted in ‘Admin Tools for Joomla! 4 & 5’
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Admin Tools version
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Latest post by nicholas on Sunday, 20 November 2011 16:47 CST

Chacapamac
I move from another well known Firewall to AdminPro and I really become worry about Admin blocking legit users getting blocked.

The only thing that is suggested is to take firewall settings off.

What is the sens to have a firewall if I have to take security function off.

What I really need is :
1— a simple whitelist (with IP range) or better by users (as IP change with time that Admin will NEVER NEVER NEVER BLOCK) for the front editors and backend administrators.

2—some kind of manual that will treat that exact subject to be able to understand exactly what can we do to eradicate the blocking of legit users without weakening the security.

and please, (REALLY IMPORTANT) at least to have a possibility to have a joomla article or some kind of easy formating space to have a nice professional error page with logos, email, phone whatever that pop automatically (not after 15 minutes) to have an help page for blocked users.

This is becoming so annoying on a portal that I have that I think to revert my precedent Firewall.

I’m loosing interest from users, administrators, authors...

I like Admin but that behaviour make me rethink about it’s usability...

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
If you read the Troubleshooter (which is THE official, well, troubleshooting documentation!!!) you will see that I suggest turning off XSSShield and Bad Behaviour integration. As I have written at least two hundred times on this forum and as I clearly state in the documentation, they are OVERKILL for most sites.

I will reiterate the main points for you:
- XSS attacks make use of bad markup which the browsers manage to somehow parse and execute as Javascript nonetheless. The proper way to deal with it is having the components used in a site properly escape their output. All components from reputable developers do, therefore using XSSShield is neither required, nor recommended. The XSSShield is an architecturally incorrect solution which relies on heuristics. Heuristics, by definition, are fuzzy and are bound to throw false positives.
- Bad Behaviour is a third party library which is known to heavily err to the side of caution. This will cause many false positives. Is it worth enabling? No, unless you are being bombarded by spam bot and hack bot attacks. Most sites should not enable it.
- The other fine point is the automatic IP blocking rules. The default settings are overkill, too. I would recommend blocking IP addresses automatically if you have at least 3 security exceptions in 1 minute and block for only a short period of time, e.g. 3 to 5 minutes. This is adequate to catch bots attacking your site and if it misfires upon your legitimate users they won't have to wait a whole day or week (which turns them off).

In the end of the day, you have to decide what is the best balance between security and convenience. Admin Tools Professional can be set up to offer a level of security from completely paranoid to absolutely lax. Depending on your site, you will have to choose the features to enable to be somewhere in the middle. It's your site, it should be your choice. Other firewall software don't offer that kind of fine-tuning. They are pre-set to offer a medium level of security, usually tweaked to err on the side of convenience.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Chacapamac
Thanks I will follow your post.

I see that I will have to digg in the extensive documentation you procure.

As a kind of perfectionist here I was thinking (maybe wrongly) taking case by case and apply WaF exceptions.

You have to understand that for people with limited knowledge about all that, turning off any security is always scary.

Suggestions 1: Having an ip range whitelist that will bypass Admin non essantial actions for administrators, authors, front end editors and even users will be absolutly perfect — You can be paranoid if you want and almost never block a legit user.
Having a send to whitelist in your Security Exceptions Log (well identified) will be great (with a choice of input it as a range)

Suggestions 2:I think to be able to have a nicely formated error page with logos, texts, link etc (the best will be a joomla article , but at least the abilty to put html in the error message will be fantastic. Imagine the frustration of a blocke user, admin, auteur having to wait 5 minutes to finally end up on a crappy white page with ugly text. This is not pro.. You should have a nice page to at least redirect the legit users somewhere. If not you will start to loose people.

• Can you put html in those field ?
• Can I speed up the apparition of that message/Article ?


this is some example of the problems :

But you will understand that applying execption her are not easy (only the attachement component??/)

CSRF Shield — http://www.mysite.com/index.php?m=239&d=next&c=0

UploadShield — http://www.mysite.com/component/attachments/save/from/closeme/tmpl/component?lang=fr

Bad Behaviour — http://mysite.com/ezh/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=193&Itemid=233/trackback

Chacapamac
OOPs! didn’t see that.
Should be part of the official and online documentation

https://www.akeebabackup.com/troubleshooter.html

Sorry !

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Work is underway to link to the troubleshooter from all of the official documentation. So far I have done this for the Akeeba Backup User's Guide book. I will also work to do the same thing for Admin Tools, but it's a very long, manual and tiring process which requires me to take a day off support. That's why it has been delayed so long.

Regarding the suggestions:

1. This is not possible with Joomla! 1.6 and later since we have user-defined user groups. I will try to see if it's possible to add an ACL permission which can be activated per group. I won't bother implementing that for 1.5 as I will stop supporting that in April 2012, making unworthy to spend time on writing a feature with a maximum lifespan of 6 months.

2. All error messages except the automatic IP block are standard Joomla! error pages. You can beautify them using the instructions in Joomla!'s official documentation. Perhaps I can make the other error message go through Joomla!'s error pages to allow you to format the message?

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Continuing my thought re #2, I don't want to re-invent the wheel risking exposure. Having Admin Tools allow you to define your own custom error pages means that I have to provide a front-end view in com_admintools to render them. However, this view can be directly accessed by an attacker to determine if you are using Admin Tools in an attempt to find out what kind of protection you have on your site. Adding a method of fingerprinting Joomla! and Admin Tools is not something I am very keen on doing, for security reasons ;)

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Chacapamac
I see
Do you think that if you allow simple html in the input field for the messages that it will be problematic.

maybe simply a call to an html file, completly independant of joomla, on the server.

Can I put already some html in those fields?

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
And this is what I suggested. If you take a look at the custom error pages documentation, you essentially get to write your own HTML error page which can be used by Joomla!. Isn't this exactly what you are proposing and without having to manually create extra HTML files in your site's root or a subdirectory of your site?

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Chacapamac
Perfect for me, I can create a simple html code to have a simple clean error page.

Thanks — Good enough for me. I wonder if I can insert images (logos) an hyperlinks?

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I haven't tried, but I don't think that you can do that on the message itself, due to the filtering performed. However, you can freely add anything you want on a custom error page because, essentially, you are creating an HTML page with some PHP code bites here and there to make it display info sent to it by Joomla!.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Chacapamac
I’m really sorry to bother you with this...

How do you link a “Custom error Page” to AdminPro to act as a frontend blocked message.

Can you make that error page appear faster as it take really long to adminpro to bring the message.

My goal here is to ensure that no site users will be irritated by them being block by error or else and be redirected to a crappy looking unprofessional error page.

That will be bad for the site owner and for the usability of your component on a professional level, Knowing my customers, I will have lot of them saying “take that firewall off’ at the first complaint of one of their visitors

Having a nice professional looking error page with links and a “sorry you have problems” announcment can eliminate the problem.

That’s what I’m trying to acheive... I’m a perfectionist and that simple fact will give me hesitation to use your products on one of my customers sites.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
If an IP is automatically blocked, we don't use the error page and we do have a time delay before showing the error message. This is done in order to save server resources in case this is a bot causing that. The best workaround is to configure Admin Tools Pro to not block users' IPs so easily. As I said, you can try setting it up to block people for 15 minutes after 3 security exceptions in 1 minute. No regular user will raise so many security exceptions so fast. If you do have such fast users, try raising the limit to 6 security exceptions in 1 minute.

If that doesn't solve the problem, let me know so that I can redesign that feature and have it eliminate the time delay and go through Joomla!'s error page.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Chacapamac
This is aportal with lot of frontend authors and backend admin

Well, I turn off
• Cross Site Scripting block (XSSShield)
• Enable Bad Behaviour filter

Hoppefully that will not let pass the bad guys...

and I put 3 attacks in 1 minutes and block for 5 minutes

I really suggest the possiblility for a fast clean pro error page, that will really polish your product.

I can tell to my customers that even if legit customers are catch in the firewall they still have an elegant Sorry and contact page — Can even be a contact form with captcha — I know I’m asking for a lot here. If you can that will be a great sale point in your proAdmin

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I will have to think about the best way to implement that in a future version of Admin Tools Professional.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

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